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hey y'all Ryan Sprague here as you all

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know this somewhere in the skies podcast

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is always free to consume but it isn't

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free to create that's why I've started

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this somewhere in the skies patreon

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campaign on a monthly basis you give

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be something truly communal and remember

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there are rewards for each level of

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now by becoming a patron to contribute

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thank you for your support and now on

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with the show

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this was the first time I never

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consciously seen those things I mean

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when I opened up my eyes before I threw

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that pillow this thing was standing it's

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do you know what that's like what we put

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locks on our doors to keep Outsiders

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from coming in why did that thing get my

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my apartment and it was standing there

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just standing there staring at me

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I was harmful this is somewhere in the

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sky's the Branzburg

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[Music]

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despite the controversial nature of the

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UFO phenomenon as a whole there's one

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sibling to its enigmatic family that

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remains the black sheep in the corner

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alien abduction from the strikingly

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human story of Whitley Strieber in

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upstate New York - the mysterious case

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of Travis Walton in the backwoods of

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Arizona abductions have made headlines

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around the world most drug abduction

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allegations are for The Skeptical

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shoulder chalking it up to sleep

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paralysis concocted hoaxes hypnagogic

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hallucinations and suppressed memories

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of childhood trauma but one man dared to

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take the phenomenon to heart with a

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compassion unlike most that man was Budd

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Hopkins well first thing I'd like to say

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is I have been dealing with the

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phenomenon for a long time and I know

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that when people come back from an

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abduction experience very often what

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they remember is not exactly what

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happened it's as if their memories have

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been altered played with whatnot through

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some sort of hypnotic means we don't

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know what happens and we know that they

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have been told certain things sometimes

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which is obviously not true and there's

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a certain degree of deception Hopkins

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encountered many abduction stories that

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may be explainable as a result of the

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affer mentioned reasons but some would

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stick with him as genuine and deeply

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complex and in the case of one woman in

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New York City the abduction account

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would change both her life and that of

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Hopkins forever but Hopkins was coming

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off the heels of two very successful

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books concerning his hypnotic regression

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work with individuals spanning the globe

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who claimed to have been abducted by

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beings from other worlds missing time

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the publication that would ultimately

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revolutionized the abduction phenomenon

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had instantly become an international

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sensation soon after he released his

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second book on the abduction topic

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intruders the incredible visitations at

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copeley woods but in his second book

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Hopkins focused more in depth on an

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individual case

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turning Kathy Davis a multiple abductee

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who would recall her frightening

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encounters with small beings who would

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literally float her out of her bedroom

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window take her aboard their craft an

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experiment on her after the publication

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of his first book on UFO research called

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missing bud received this picture from

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Kathy Davis of Indianapolis Kathy

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claimed at the circle and strip of dead

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grass had appeared in her yard after she

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had seen a UFO in the area and she

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wondered if the damage had been caused

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by a UFO taking off and landing oddly

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she also mentioned that both she and her

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mother had similar scars and neither of

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them could remember the causes her

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curiosity opened a floodgate of

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revelations under hypnosis Kathy

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recalled not just the terrifying events

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of the night she mentioned which

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culminated with her abduction but

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several other Close Encounters that had

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occurred throughout her life at the age

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of seven she had apparently become an

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unwilling participant in a long-term

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genetic experiment Kathy remembered none

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of this consciously hypnosis revealed

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that a sample of flesh had been removed

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from her leg during that first abduction

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by an alien creature she described as

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having a large head with huge black eyes

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now if Kathy were the only person

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describing these encounters one would be

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inclined as she did herself to dump her

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sanity but these drawings have been done

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by dozens of different people from

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various locations claiming

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similar experiences now over the course

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of many hypnotic sessions the purpose of

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these abductions became clear Kathy had

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an ovary removed from her body and was

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eventually shown a hybrid child

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apparently part human part alien she was

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told that she was the mother but could

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not keep the child obviously this

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revelation whether real or imagined was

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devastating to Kathy Kathy story had a

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huge impact on others who claimed

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similar experiences but none more than

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that of Linda Napolitano Napolitano had

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previously been working with Hopkins on

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hypnotic regression sessions she had

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written Hopkins a letter stating that

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she had an implant but indoor nasal

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cavity

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was examined by a physician who insisted

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that she must have undergone some sort

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of surgery when she was younger

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Napolitano never remembered ever having

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such surgery an assertion confirmed by

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her mother

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shortly after Hopkins a New York City

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resident lived only miles from

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Napolitano so he decided he would work

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with her directly

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having her attend his abduction support

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group meetings and checking in with her

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every now and again but it was

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Napolitano who would contact him next in

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the story she had to tell would ignite a

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flame that still remains burning today

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it was in the late morning of November

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30th 1989 that Napolitano called Hopkins

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in a daze in sounded like she was in

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complete shock she went on to tell him

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that she had been abducted earlier that

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morning a few days later she went under

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regressive hypnosis with op guns and

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details about the abduction slowly began

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to trickle in she remembered literally

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floating out of her bed and being

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carried through a solid window of a 12th

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floor apartment in lower Manhattan

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colors of blue and white enveloped her

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eyes as she ascended into a craft that

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was hovering over her apartment building

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three small beings accompanied her up to

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the craft the beings then began swiftly

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partaking in what seemed to be a

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protocol of examinations she was

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returned to her bed some time later I

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tried to wake my husband

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I still closed and there was no response

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from my husband

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and that's when I did open my eyes and I

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look straight ahead and there was this

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thing this creature standing at the foot

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of my bed

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and it was the first time I had ever

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seen that consciously I was awake I

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hadn't gone to sleep yet I was saying my

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so by this time my legs went numb and I

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sat up in bed dragging my heavy legs

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with me and turned up behind me and

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threw a pillow big pillow

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that I mean you would think that I

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stuffed them or Rock was heavy and I hit

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into that creature and my next conscious

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memory fragmented memory was seeing

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white fabric flow up and over my eyes

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and then down again and then I felt

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something perhaps little fists or maybe

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an instrument pounding on my back

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and and that was all I remembered

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and then my next conscious memory was

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that of falling into my bed I could have

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fallen anywhere from 2 inches or 2 feet

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up or whatever but I was conscious and I

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felt myself falling to bed time

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progressed and Hopkins continued to dig

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deeper into the regression sessions he

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was looking for something solid that

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could help put in a pole attano at ease

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or bring some sort of closure to her

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then a letter arrived in Hopkins mailbox

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that would break the case wide open

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and confirm that not only did Napolitano

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have a genuine and physical experience

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but there had in fact been witnesses to

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the entire event

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it wasn't until February of the

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following year that Hopkins received a

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shocking letter regarding the bulletin

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OHS abduction in reading it Hopkins was

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convinced that he was getting closer to

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some sort of answer to the abduction

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phenomenon but first he had to figure

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out how to approach Napolitano about the

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letter for so long she had tried to

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convince herself that it was some sort

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of continuous nightmare or hallucination

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but the story Napolitano told under

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aggression matched so strikingly with

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this letter that Hopkins had no other

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choice but to share the letter with her

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the letter was reportedly written by two

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New York police officers under the

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assumed names of Richard and Dan who

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were working undercover on the night of

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the event they sat in their car under

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FDR Drive in Manhattan and watched as a

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large red object with green lights

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wrapped around its cylindrical exterior

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hovered in the dark sky they sat in the

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car terrified and soon they saw the

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figure of a woman in a nightgown

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crouched in the fetal position

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floating in mid-air three small beings

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surrounded her in a triangular fashion

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as they ascended into the craft

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the craft then headed towards the

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Brooklyn Bridge and disappeared out of

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sight the officers could have processed

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what they had just seen and sat there

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dumbfounded not quite sure how to

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proceed they were deeply concerned about

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the whereabouts of this woman and wanted

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nothing more than to know that she was

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not only safe but alive

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Hopkins confronted Napolitano about the

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letter and warned her that the officers

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were planning a visit to her apartment

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they had in fact remembered the exact

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location of her apartment building and

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even the floor she was mysteriously

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taken from there were only two blocks

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away and they were sitting under the FDR

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drive in their car and they used

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binoculars and that's how they

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identified me because they realized they

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knew what building and window that I

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came out of there was only a few days

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later that Napolitano phoned Hopkins

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confirming that the man had visited her

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and that it was a strange interaction

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indeed the meeting was emotional on both

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ends meeting with each other confirmed

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that something impossible had been

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witnessed and experienced in real time

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and that Napolitano was physically taken

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by something possibly extraterrestrial

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Richard seemed a bit more relieved

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although Dan was clearly distraught and

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bluntly asked Napolitano quote how did

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you do it how did you make it happen and

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quote Napolitano was completely taken

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back by his questioning defending

278
00:12:42,170 --> 00:12:38,880
herself by explaining that the entire

279
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:42,180
event occurred against her will Dan just

280
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:44,070
didn't seem to accept that she hadn't

281
00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:45,930
had a part in the events that took place

282
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:48,750
that night Napolitano requested that the

283
00:12:53,930 --> 00:12:51,210
men meet with Hopkins to further the

284
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:53,940
investigation of her experience the men

285
00:12:57,830 --> 00:12:55,980
immediately said they wish not to meet

286
00:13:00,350 --> 00:12:57,840
in person and said they would contact

287
00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:00,360
Hopkins via phone after more

288
00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:02,820
conversation the officers left her

289
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:05,820
apartment weeks later Hopkins received a

290
00:13:10,910 --> 00:13:08,010
phone call from Richard which through a

291
00:13:13,079 --> 00:13:10,920
new curveball into the case Richard

292
00:13:15,959 --> 00:13:13,089
admitted that he and Dan

293
00:13:18,119 --> 00:13:15,969
not members of police department but

294
00:13:20,669 --> 00:13:18,129
were hired security officers who were

295
00:13:22,919 --> 00:13:20,679
escorting a client to a helicopter pad

296
00:13:25,889 --> 00:13:22,929
in lower Manhattan that night

297
00:13:28,769 --> 00:13:25,899
this client was also a witness to the

298
00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:28,779
events there was now a third person

299
00:13:32,929 --> 00:13:31,389
involved to Hopkins hoped to speak with

300
00:13:36,119 --> 00:13:32,939
although doing so would prove difficult

301
00:13:38,969 --> 00:13:36,129
because the third person was a prominent

302
00:13:40,769 --> 00:13:38,979
figure in the political world it would

303
00:13:42,779 --> 00:13:40,779
be some time before the name of this

304
00:13:44,729 --> 00:13:42,789
individual was leaked to the public

305
00:13:47,069 --> 00:13:44,739
Hopkins eventually was able to meet with

306
00:13:49,589 --> 00:13:47,079
a man who confirmed this story and after

307
00:13:52,019 --> 00:13:49,599
close deduction by many researchers and

308
00:13:54,989 --> 00:13:52,029
investigators the name of the individual

309
00:14:03,539 --> 00:13:54,999
was divulged as Javier Perez de Cuellar

310
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:03,549
I exercise discretion and conscience the

311
00:14:07,409 --> 00:14:05,529
functions entrusted to me affect the

312
00:14:09,659 --> 00:14:07,419
Journal of the United Nations the

313
00:14:11,089 --> 00:14:09,669
identity of this witness definitely

314
00:14:13,319 --> 00:14:11,099
heightened the stakes of the case

315
00:14:15,629 --> 00:14:13,329
immensely but nothing would heighten

316
00:14:19,019 --> 00:14:15,639
them more than the actions Dan and

317
00:14:21,299 --> 00:14:19,029
Richard would soon take although

318
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,309
Napolitano had been kidnapped by what

319
00:14:25,799 --> 00:14:22,959
seemed to be beings from another world

320
00:14:28,349 --> 00:14:25,809
it was a kidnapping by humans that would

321
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:28,359
traumatize her even worse on October

322
00:14:34,439 --> 00:14:31,929
15th 1991 Napolitano was walking the

323
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:34,449
streets near the South Street Seaport in

324
00:14:40,169 --> 00:14:36,809
lower Manhattan when she spotted Dan

325
00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:40,179
jogging in the area they both came to a

326
00:14:45,569 --> 00:14:42,819
complete halt and suddenly Dan grabbed

327
00:14:48,289 --> 00:14:45,579
her and forced her into his car all the

328
00:14:51,229 --> 00:14:48,299
time spouting incoherent assertions that

329
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:51,239
Napolitano was what he referred to as a

330
00:14:57,059 --> 00:14:54,639
half-breed and that she belonged to him

331
00:14:59,159 --> 00:14:57,069
clearly Dan had been affected

332
00:15:01,679 --> 00:14:59,169
dramatically by the original event and

333
00:15:04,379 --> 00:15:01,689
he was having a complete mental

334
00:15:07,229 --> 00:15:04,389
breakdown Dan began driving and

335
00:15:09,029 --> 00:15:07,239
Napolitano slowly calmed herself down

336
00:15:11,219 --> 00:15:09,039
and tried to talk with Dan in a

337
00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:11,229
civilized manner hoping that he would

338
00:15:17,159 --> 00:15:13,889
let her go but Dan had different plans

339
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:17,169
they drove quietly to Long Island where

340
00:15:20,969 --> 00:15:18,639
Dan would bring her to a beach house

341
00:15:23,470 --> 00:15:20,979
near the water he presented her with a

342
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,480
white nightgown and demanded

343
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:26,000
after a debate and concerned for her

344
00:15:29,530 --> 00:15:26,510
life

345
00:15:32,290 --> 00:15:29,540
Napolitano reluctantly put it on over

346
00:15:34,390 --> 00:15:32,300
her clothes seeing Napolitano in the

347
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:34,400
white nightgown was confirmation to Dan

348
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,250
that it was indeed Napolitano that he

349
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:39,440
had seen floating out of the window that

350
00:15:44,980 --> 00:15:42,110
night as Dan fiddled with a camera to

351
00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:44,990
take pictures of her Napolitano was able

352
00:15:49,660 --> 00:15:47,900
to escape a few photos were taken by Dan

353
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:49,670
of her running away from the beach house

354
00:15:54,070 --> 00:15:51,650
Dan caught up to her and was able to

355
00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:54,080
capture her again the strange behavior

356
00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:56,540
of Dan was interrupted when Richard

357
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,970
finally arrived putting things into

358
00:16:02,710 --> 00:15:59,600
perspective

359
00:16:05,830 --> 00:16:02,720
he drove Napolitano home then apologized

360
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:05,840
profusely for Dan's odd behavior wine

361
00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:07,790
Napolitano didn't report the incident to

362
00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:10,670
the police was beyond comprehension one

363
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:12,380
can assert that perhaps she felt

364
00:16:15,870 --> 00:16:14,330
threatened having discovered that these

365
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:15,880
men were working with some sort of

366
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,530
intelligence agency and that the police

367
00:16:23,140 --> 00:16:20,480
would do very little to help her or

368
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:23,150
perhaps she still had hope that some

369
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:25,970
sort of conclusion was inevitable thus

370
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:28,010
proving that this was all seemingly

371
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:30,890
connected and all for a reason whatever

372
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:34,270
that reason no one would ever discover

373
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:37,310
sometime later Dan sent Napolitano a

374
00:16:42,460 --> 00:16:39,670
letter stating that he was in a mental

375
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:42,470
institution and that he was indeed in

376
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:45,710
love would Napolitano as if things

377
00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:47,720
weren't hard enough for her she now had

378
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:50,060
a rogue agent of an intelligence agency

379
00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:52,550
professing his love for what he claimed

380
00:16:58,900 --> 00:16:56,030
was an alien-human hybrid Napolitano

381
00:17:01,240 --> 00:16:58,910
couldn't catch a break until she

382
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:01,250
discovered that Javier Perez de Cuellar

383
00:17:07,620 --> 00:17:04,220
wasn't just a witness of her event but

384
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:07,630
may have been an abductee himself

385
00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:10,070
Napolitano remembers that after her

386
00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:12,260
abduction that night she was returned to

387
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:14,260
her bed her husband lay asleep

388
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:16,850
completely oblivious to the situation

389
00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:19,130
Napolitano would later admit that her

390
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:21,590
husband laid so still that he appeared

391
00:17:26,650 --> 00:17:23,930
to be dead shortly after the abduction

392
00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:26,660
she went into her son's room and the

393
00:17:32,410 --> 00:17:29,750
same was true for him he laid there with

394
00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:32,420
small breaths slowly escaping his body

395
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:34,760
Napolitano put a mirror under his nose

396
00:17:38,690 --> 00:17:36,600
just to make sure he was in fact

397
00:17:40,730 --> 00:17:38,700
breathing after confronting her son

398
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:40,740
about the incident he said that he

399
00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:42,690
remembered being comforted by a man

400
00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:44,580
while his mother was being examined

401
00:17:49,159 --> 00:17:46,919
during the abduction Hopkins would show

402
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:49,169
over 20 different photos of different

403
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:51,570
men to the boy and without hesitation he

404
00:17:57,409 --> 00:17:54,480
identified the mysterious man as Javier

405
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,419
Perez Hopkins now believed that this

406
00:18:02,450 --> 00:17:59,460
event didn't just involve the abduction

407
00:18:05,149 --> 00:18:02,460
of Napolitano but perhaps multi

408
00:18:06,919 --> 00:18:05,159
abductees he confronted Javier Perez

409
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:06,929
about this theory and he would neither

410
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:09,960
confirm nor deny the accusation that he

411
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:12,210
was somehow involved or part of the

412
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:14,850
abduction that same year Hopkins

413
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:16,740
received another letter from a retired

414
00:18:20,389 --> 00:18:18,960
telephone operator claiming to have been

415
00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:20,399
on the bridge on the morning of

416
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:23,340
Napolitano's abduction she requested

417
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:25,740
anonymity by Hopkins and was given the

418
00:18:30,169 --> 00:18:28,500
pseudonym Janet Kimble Kimble claimed to

419
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:30,179
have been driving on the Brooklyn Bridge

420
00:18:36,169 --> 00:18:32,580
when her cars stalled and the lights

421
00:18:39,169 --> 00:18:36,179
went out I'm standing at exactly the

422
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:39,179
spot where this very strange event was

423
00:18:43,690 --> 00:18:40,610
seen

424
00:18:46,509 --> 00:18:43,700
on at 3:00 a.m. really on November 30th

425
00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:46,519
1989 a woman was driving from Brooklyn

426
00:18:50,649 --> 00:18:48,529
to New York right down here in the other

427
00:18:54,899 --> 00:18:50,659
lane her car engine died the lights went

428
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:54,909
out and she looked over to this building

429
00:19:00,730 --> 00:18:56,929
running the distance with a little

430
00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:00,740
pointed bruise and at that point she saw

431
00:19:05,019 --> 00:19:03,230
a burst of light as a UFO hovering only

432
00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:05,029
a few feet above it turned out all of

433
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:08,500
its lights and then from a window below

434
00:19:15,310 --> 00:19:12,710
small ball like figures rolled out they

435
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:15,320
unrolled in the bright light and there

436
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:18,049
was a woman in the middle with a long

437
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,470
white nightgown and two small figures

438
00:19:27,310 --> 00:19:24,320
below her and one above her and they the

439
00:19:30,190 --> 00:19:27,320
figures floated up into the UFO and then

440
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:30,200
the UFO changed its lights zoomed out

441
00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:31,940
across the river and across the bridge

442
00:19:36,659 --> 00:19:34,820
had disappeared and the woman's car

443
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:36,669
lights and engine started back up again

444
00:19:41,860 --> 00:19:39,110
but this is the way it started for her

445
00:19:44,019 --> 00:19:41,870
that night Kimball went on to write that

446
00:19:46,509 --> 00:19:44,029
she would never return to New York City

447
00:19:48,340 --> 00:19:46,519
again after this experience she felt

448
00:19:50,049 --> 00:19:48,350
compelled to look up Hopkins in the

449
00:19:51,639 --> 00:19:50,059
phone book after one of her family

450
00:19:53,889 --> 00:19:51,649
members had mentioned his work in

451
00:19:56,259 --> 00:19:53,899
abduction research with a letter she

452
00:19:58,389 --> 00:19:56,269
sent him she included a drawing of what

453
00:20:00,250 --> 00:19:58,399
she had witnessed that night the drawing

454
00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:00,260
matched the stories of Napolitano

455
00:20:05,649 --> 00:20:03,380
Richard Dan and Javier Perez down to the

456
00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:05,659
color of the craft and the fetal

457
00:20:10,299 --> 00:20:07,820
position Napolitano seemed to be stuck

458
00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:10,309
in as she disappeared into the craft

459
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:12,860
after Kimball came forward other

460
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:15,860
witnesses began trickling Hopkins was

461
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:18,590
both excited and completely overwhelmed

462
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:20,570
at this point with a number of claims

463
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:22,970
the accusations against Napolitano

464
00:20:26,889 --> 00:20:24,830
and the sheer weight of this event

465
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:26,899
happening he found it very challenging

466
00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:29,450
to decide how to move forward with the

467
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:32,120
case he decided that there was really

468
00:20:36,610 --> 00:20:34,220
only one option and that was to bring

469
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:36,620
the entire case to the forefront and let

470
00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:39,710
the public decide this decision would

471
00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:42,470
become his third book it was titled

472
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:45,470
witnessed the true story of the Brooklyn

473
00:20:49,810 --> 00:20:48,610
Bridge UFO abductions it was released in

474
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:49,820
1997

475
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,010
the book would bring the case to a wider

476
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:54,320
audience in cement Hopkins as the

477
00:20:59,230 --> 00:20:56,570
prominent researcher in a field that he

478
00:21:01,720 --> 00:20:59,240
had ultimately created the Brooklyn

479
00:21:04,780 --> 00:21:01,730
Bridge abduction case is hard to swallow

480
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:04,790
at first glance obviously it almost

481
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:06,650
plays out like a science fiction novel

482
00:21:12,430 --> 00:21:10,010
in fact some investigators have gone so

483
00:21:15,670 --> 00:21:12,440
far as to claim that Napolitano borrowed

484
00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:15,680
the story from a book entitled nite ize

485
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:17,780
written by science fiction writer

486
00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:20,750
Garfield Reeves Stevens the book for

487
00:21:26,110 --> 00:21:23,240
striking resemblances to Napolitano

488
00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:26,120
story it was also published in April

489
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:29,500
1989 a few months before her supposed

490
00:21:34,990 --> 00:21:32,330
abduction but even if she had

491
00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:35,000
fraudulently taken the story as her own

492
00:21:39,490 --> 00:21:37,190
how would that explain the multiple

493
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:39,500
witnesses again one could make a bold

494
00:21:44,530 --> 00:21:41,450
theory that it was all a giant hoax

495
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:44,540
perpetuated by Napolitano Richard and

496
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:48,110
Xavier and even Hopkins himself while

497
00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:49,730
this seems like a grand conspiracy

498
00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:52,760
theory crazier things have happened in

499
00:21:57,820 --> 00:21:55,310
the UFO field and the skeptical inquiry

500
00:22:00,340 --> 00:21:57,830
into Napolitano's case has to be

501
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:00,350
acknowledged for several reasons the

502
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:03,170
first would have to be the entire affair

503
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:05,690
with Richard and Dan the events with

504
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:08,480
them seemed ripped directly onto some

505
00:22:13,870 --> 00:22:11,570
sort of thriller or even soap opera and

506
00:22:16,990 --> 00:22:13,880
the fact that they never agreed to meet

507
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:17,000
with Hopkins in person is cause for

508
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:19,610
concern today the Linda Cortile case

509
00:22:25,230 --> 00:22:22,270
website claims that there have been 23

510
00:22:27,910 --> 00:22:25,240
witnesses to the events that night a

511
00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:27,920
staggering amount of people who can't

512
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:31,160
fully be accounted for or identified and

513
00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:33,770
skeptics continue to claim many

514
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:36,680
loopholes to the story arguing that many

515
00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:39,530
details of the case could be too good to

516
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:42,020
be true the apartment block the cartel

517
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:44,210
lived on was a stone's throw from the

518
00:22:50,350 --> 00:22:46,630
active loading dock of the New York Post

519
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:50,360
not a single worker on duty that shift

520
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:52,210
reported anything unusual at the time

521
00:22:57,490 --> 00:22:54,890
now that could be due to their own

522
00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:57,500
schedule at the time in question a more

523
00:23:01,330 --> 00:22:59,450
telling fact that counts against this

524
00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:01,340
abduction taking place could surround

525
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:03,620
Quayle var and his limousine

526
00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:05,840
security personnel insists that

527
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:08,029
transporting a dignitary such as the

528
00:23:13,870 --> 00:23:10,490
secretary-general of the UN is an

529
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:13,880
enormous logistical process security

530
00:23:18,669 --> 00:23:15,529
teams often prepare high-ranking

531
00:23:21,549 --> 00:23:18,679
officials travel well in advance a huge

532
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:21,559
part of this is the timetables given if

533
00:23:25,899 --> 00:23:23,450
the car that is transporting the

534
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:25,909
secretary-general is even a few seconds

535
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:28,520
behind schedule than UN forces would

536
00:23:34,299 --> 00:23:30,830
have to move in and determine what if

537
00:23:36,610 --> 00:23:34,309
any action is required checkpoints are

538
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:36,620
also set up and used to help determine

539
00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:39,590
whether or not lateness is an issue so

540
00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:42,289
one really asked wonder how were these

541
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:44,870
men out there at 3 a.m. in the morning

542
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,510
and there was no contingency plan set in

543
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:49,520
motion when all of this seemed to have

544
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:51,770
occurred so these observations

545
00:23:57,850 --> 00:23:54,830
definitely leave room for debate as is

546
00:23:59,740 --> 00:23:57,860
the case with any UFO event especially

547
00:24:02,139 --> 00:23:59,750
when it comes to the abduction

548
00:24:04,659 --> 00:24:02,149
phenomenon and while a large part of me

549
00:24:07,299 --> 00:24:04,669
remains skeptical of this case I felt it

550
00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:07,309
only appropriate and fair to hear the

551
00:24:12,580 --> 00:24:10,070
other side and to do that I turned to

552
00:24:15,399 --> 00:24:12,590
someone who had a direct connection to

553
00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:15,409
the case having assisted Budd Hopkins on

554
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:17,929
countless cases and this one in

555
00:24:23,169 --> 00:24:20,090
particular were now going to hear from

556
00:24:25,930 --> 00:24:23,179
UFO researcher author and my mentor

557
00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:25,940
Peter Robbins I wanted to hear his

558
00:24:31,230 --> 00:24:28,520
thoughts on the case and his personal

559
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:31,240
experiences during this lengthy

560
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,240
extraordinary and highly controversial

561
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:36,799
investigation Peter thank you so much

562
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:37,820
for joining me today

563
00:24:42,820 --> 00:24:40,640
glad to be back on the show so for the

564
00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:42,830
past 20 minutes or so I've sort of gone

565
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:45,380
through a brief overview of the Linda

566
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:48,110
Cortile case a pseudonym I might add and

567
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:50,990
I wanted to get your personal thoughts

568
00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:52,730
on this Peter you know having a close

569
00:24:57,610 --> 00:24:54,440
connection to both Budd Hopkins and

570
00:24:59,139 --> 00:24:57,620
Linda I thought no one better to come on

571
00:25:02,500 --> 00:24:59,149
and give their personal thoughts about

572
00:25:05,139 --> 00:25:02,510
the controversy behind this very hotly

573
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:05,149
debated case out of New York City so I

574
00:25:08,889 --> 00:25:07,010
guess so sort of lets you take it from

575
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:08,899
here what is your connection to this

576
00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:11,450
case and what are your overall thoughts

577
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:13,430
on all of this

578
00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:15,850
as certainly some of your listeners know

579
00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:19,820
for many years I had a good friend name

580
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:23,630
but Hopkins and for many of the 35 years

581
00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:26,510
that we were friends I worked as his

582
00:25:35,170 --> 00:25:29,030
assistant I guess a little backstory is

583
00:25:38,170 --> 00:25:35,180
appropriate here bud and I'm in 1976 I

584
00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:38,180
had gotten involved obsessed with the

585
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:41,900
subject of UFOs the year before and the

586
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:45,200
following year read an article a case

587
00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:48,020
investigation in the Village Voice of

588
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:51,830
all things a newspaper legendary New

589
00:25:58,810 --> 00:25:55,210
York publication no longer in print now

590
00:26:01,330 --> 00:25:58,820
but a weekly that never dealt in UFOs

591
00:26:04,780 --> 00:26:01,340
and saw the headline walking from buy a

592
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:04,790
newsstand bought it read it thought it

593
00:26:11,230 --> 00:26:07,370
was about the best investigative work I

594
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,240
had read in the year that I have been

595
00:26:15,850 --> 00:26:13,520
seeking out information trying to learn

596
00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:15,860
more about the phenomena the New York

597
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:18,260
art world is a fairly small place in

598
00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:21,410
that I remembered the name Budd Hopkins

599
00:26:26,980 --> 00:26:24,860
Budd with two DS because he had been

600
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:26,990
part of a group show that I had seen as

601
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:30,250
a young painter in New York and I

602
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:32,450
wondered if it was the same person who

603
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:34,370
had written this and brilliant analysis

604
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:38,930
and investigation of a case that the

605
00:26:43,530 --> 00:26:41,570
following year MUFON awarded that stinks

606
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:43,540
from being the best case of the year

607
00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:47,510
that of George Oh Barsky anyway to cut

608
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:49,280
to the chase I cold called him out of

609
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:51,200
the New York phonebook told him I was an

610
00:26:54,610 --> 00:26:53,120
artist interested in the subject that my

611
00:26:57,010 --> 00:26:54,620
sister seemed to have had an experience

612
00:26:59,950 --> 00:26:57,020
we had had a sighting together he

613
00:27:03,490 --> 00:26:59,960
invited me over for coffee and we had

614
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:03,500
coffee for the next 35 years I worked as

615
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:06,530
Bud's assistant throughout the six years

616
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:10,250
that he investigated what first became

617
00:27:16,090 --> 00:27:14,090
known as the Linda case and grew quite

618
00:27:19,210 --> 00:27:16,100
close to Linda who I still consider a

619
00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:19,220
good friend I was there pretty much

620
00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:20,870
every step of the way

621
00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:25,460
as a bud went into detective mode and I

622
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:26,940
should say here

623
00:27:33,890 --> 00:27:29,760
you know we bandy about names and cases

624
00:27:36,050 --> 00:27:33,900
and investigations in this field but

625
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:36,060
unless you've really read case

626
00:27:42,650 --> 00:27:39,480
investigations by individuals it's very

627
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:42,660
easy to just you know hear bits and

628
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:46,380
pieces form an opinion based on often

629
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:50,400
not a lot of material and you know then

630
00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:52,230
defend that opinion because it's your

631
00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:55,080
opinion and hey I would have to say in

632
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:57,270
the more than 40 years that I've been

633
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:00,720
involved in this subject that six year

634
00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:04,020
long investigation which I assisted in

635
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:07,350
and received a lovely credit for in the

636
00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:11,190
book year after year was by far the most

637
00:28:19,820 --> 00:28:15,060
complex the most fascinating in many

638
00:28:24,110 --> 00:28:19,830
ways the most chilling and most as human

639
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:24,120
a story as imaginable but with so many

640
00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:27,930
extraordinary aspects that the logical

641
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:31,460
mind is compelled to dismiss it as

642
00:28:38,150 --> 00:28:35,370
collectively too far out or too weird or

643
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:38,160
too impossible and I would say whatever

644
00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:41,210
point we leave off on this discussion

645
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,430
listeners should remember one thing

646
00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:47,520
which is the book that came out of this

647
00:28:53,030 --> 00:28:50,280
a book called witnessed the true story

648
00:28:56,660 --> 00:28:53,040
of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO abductions is

649
00:28:59,570 --> 00:28:56,670
a must read for any serious investigator

650
00:29:02,870 --> 00:28:59,580
or student of the subject you have a

651
00:29:06,550 --> 00:29:02,880
chance to see one of the best people in

652
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:06,560
the field ever conduct a years-long

653
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:11,330
investigation with the skill objectivity

654
00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:15,300
knowledge compassion hutzpah as you've

655
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:19,560
ever experienced in a true story I was

656
00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:23,010
there working with Bud in one of my

657
00:29:28,490 --> 00:29:25,950
capacities at the time was I responded

658
00:29:33,620 --> 00:29:28,500
to the mail he received we're going back

659
00:29:36,770 --> 00:29:33,630
now to 1989 and this is two years after

660
00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:36,780
Bud had published intruders a huge

661
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:39,480
international bestseller certainly by

662
00:29:42,260 --> 00:29:40,530
UFO standard

663
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:42,270
I don't know how many languages it came

664
00:29:47,810 --> 00:29:44,690
out and over the years a Seminole

665
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:47,820
investigation and that of course

666
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:50,010
followed his first book missing time

667
00:29:55,580 --> 00:29:52,710
which came out in 81 people rotate him

668
00:29:59,720 --> 00:29:55,590
from all over the world and this is all

669
00:30:03,170 --> 00:29:59,730
pre digital and bud was very old-school

670
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:03,180
and insisted that literally every letter

671
00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:06,930
be responded to even with a brief note

672
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:11,430
on our stationery that I signed or in

673
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:14,850
some cases he did and he had worked out

674
00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:18,650
a simple code for me to follow of

675
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:21,300
symbols to put on the outside of an

676
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:24,690
envelope when I had given him the day's

677
00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:29,010
mail after reviewing it from you know a

678
00:30:37,910 --> 00:30:33,300
fan letter to X number of stars that

679
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:37,920
this sounded very compelling and it

680
00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:40,050
should be followed up on should I do it

681
00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:43,740
should he do it and I read this letter

682
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:46,470
from this woman named Linda her

683
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:50,010
pseudonym is Cortile it's another last

684
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:54,000
name italian-american who lived in New

685
00:30:59,600 --> 00:30:56,210
York City her whole life talking about

686
00:31:04,970 --> 00:30:59,610
concerns that she had I was there when

687
00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:04,980
she first visited demure polite very

688
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:07,680
old-fashioned in many respects Szilard

689
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:10,050
in the same neighborhood down by the

690
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:11,760
Brooklyn Bridge that she had grown up in

691
00:31:18,050 --> 00:31:14,930
and in so many cases a very regular

692
00:31:20,030 --> 00:31:18,060
person of a certain archetype Catholic

693
00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:20,040
went to church regularly

694
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:24,150
I expect still does and the

695
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:27,960
investigation commenced with interviews

696
00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:32,970
and ultimately the experience that led

697
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:35,550
her to contact bud that had happened to

698
00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:40,320
her in late November of 1989 when you

699
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:42,060
asked me to come on the show and talk

700
00:31:46,790 --> 00:31:43,890
about this a couple of days ago I

701
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:46,800
thought sure I I'm familiar with the

702
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:50,820
case and well more familiar than most

703
00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:53,310
people are but I realized when I was

704
00:31:56,660 --> 00:31:54,060
asked

705
00:31:59,420 --> 00:31:56,670
about it a month or so ago in passing on

706
00:32:02,080 --> 00:31:59,430
another show that I had gotten a date

707
00:32:04,970 --> 00:32:02,090
wrong and when you work from memory

708
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:04,980
things like that are bound to happen so

709
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:07,850
I wanted to just reread parts of

710
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:10,410
witnessed and go through notes I had at

711
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:13,470
the time monographs that bud had written

712
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:17,490
on it and as things developed the

713
00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:19,770
central event became something that

714
00:32:27,130 --> 00:32:22,470
obsessed us both that on the night in

715
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:27,140
question Linda who had a lifetime of

716
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:31,710
experiences as classic abductee

717
00:32:37,370 --> 00:32:34,590
experiences who was taken from her

718
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:37,380
bedroom on the twelfth floor as I recall

719
00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:41,490
of her apartment in her nightgown cold

720
00:32:47,210 --> 00:32:44,820
weather out floated through plate-glass

721
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:47,220
window of their bedroom her and her

722
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:50,850
husband who as always remained sleeping

723
00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:53,310
as is the way it is couples are

724
00:33:01,070 --> 00:32:56,240
separated at moments like this and

725
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:01,080
floated up into a large glowing circular

726
00:33:08,510 --> 00:33:03,570
shape hanging just above her building

727
00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:08,520
what made this case to use the

728
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:11,070
dispassionate word very different than

729
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:14,460
any of her previous experiences was that

730
00:33:20,420 --> 00:33:18,240
it was not only witnessed but multiplied

731
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:20,430
witnessed even though it happened at

732
00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:22,740
about 3:00 in the morning this is

733
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:27,270
Manhattan as you know as a adopted

734
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:31,050
Manhattanite a lot of people work

735
00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:34,980
through the night and what followed

736
00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:38,760
after bud decided to publish a monograph

737
00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:41,310
on it and word got out about this

738
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:44,310
particular event letters started coming

739
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:47,960
in from decidedly different individuals

740
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:50,760
with different addresses with different

741
00:33:57,730 --> 00:33:53,610
handwriting's with different postal

742
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:57,740
cancellations all of them describing

743
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:01,440
literally the identical phenomenon many

744
00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:05,010
people's first reactions were oh my god

745
00:34:08,150 --> 00:34:07,380
they're making a movie how are they

746
00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:08,160
doing this

747
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:11,700
people seeing what they were seeing from

748
00:34:18,020 --> 00:34:14,210
different angles around lower Manhattan

749
00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:18,030
one memorable witness a woman who was

750
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:20,640
returning from a friend's retirement

751
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:23,580
party observed as a number of people did

752
00:34:29,450 --> 00:34:26,850
this large glowing in shape from the

753
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:29,460
Brooklyn Bridge and observed these

754
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:32,400
shapes going up into the disk it moved

755
00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:34,410
away from the building headed toward the

756
00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:37,580
East River and dived into the East River

757
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:41,790
to emerge further out on Long Island at

758
00:34:49,490 --> 00:34:45,150
some discernable time later with three

759
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:49,500
other individuals on board as well who

760
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:55,770
witnessed Linda on the beach talking

761
00:35:01,160 --> 00:34:58,140
about something that comes up fairly

762
00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:01,170
often with abductors a message basically

763
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:03,750
about the destruction of the environment

764
00:35:11,110 --> 00:35:07,680
and the idea that we needed to clean up

765
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:11,120
our act it's generally interpreted as a

766
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:14,370
you know a logical message from these

767
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:17,460
other intelligences to take care of our

768
00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:20,760
planet in this case that seemed to be

769
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:27,000
more opposed Linda who is a smoker and

770
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:30,090
eats meat and is not particularly caught

771
00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:34,440
up in environmental causes was I I don't

772
00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:36,030
even know the right language controlled

773
00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:38,520
to do this in front of these three

774
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:42,120
individuals two of them security for the

775
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:45,290
third individual who we did not discuss

776
00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:48,570
their position or their name alluded to

777
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:51,620
certain things in the book but in fact

778
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:55,770
was a man named Perez de Cuellar who at

779
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:58,530
the time was the secretary-general of

780
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:01,920
the United Nations and along with

781
00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:05,010
security people was downtown at that

782
00:36:11,780 --> 00:36:08,340
time for reasons we can only guess at

783
00:36:15,110 --> 00:36:11,790
and we were left to assume that this was

784
00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:15,120
to take a person who dealt regularly

785
00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:17,790
with world leaders give them this

786
00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:19,360
experience

787
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:22,420
and perhaps some extrapolating here the

788
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:24,400
hope being that they might ultimately

789
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:27,310
speak out about it Perez de Cuellar

790
00:36:36,090 --> 00:36:32,320
never did but the investigation and this

791
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:36,100
again is almost five years more than

792
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:38,890
five years after Linda presented herself

793
00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:44,710
to bud bud and de Cuellar met in the VIP

794
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:48,150
lounge at O'Hare Airport in Chicago

795
00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:51,040
arranged by a reporter who had an

796
00:36:55,950 --> 00:36:53,740
appointment to do an interview with de

797
00:36:59,850 --> 00:36:55,960
Cuellar was aware of this story a

798
00:37:02,910 --> 00:36:59,860
colleague of Bud's and essentially set

799
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:02,920
up this opportunity for Hopkins to speak

800
00:37:08,580 --> 00:37:05,010
with the Secretary General and to

801
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:08,590
present him with information that we

802
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:10,530
sense that he would appreciate I

803
00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:14,320
remember very well how excited bud was

804
00:37:19,530 --> 00:37:17,590
and the description of the event because

805
00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:19,540
I was working in the office when he

806
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:23,590
returned from it was either JFK or

807
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:25,630
Newark having come back from Chicago

808
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:28,530
that afternoon there are so many

809
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:32,530
tangents on this a pattern that we

810
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:35,710
observed that came up very strong in

811
00:37:42,780 --> 00:37:38,950
this case was that one of the security

812
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:42,790
people was somebody who Linda had in a

813
00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:45,820
pre-existing relationship with and not

814
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:49,540
one in the normal sense she and this

815
00:37:55,590 --> 00:37:52,300
individual Richard his real name were

816
00:37:59,960 --> 00:37:55,600
brought together repeatedly as children

817
00:38:03,740 --> 00:37:59,970
and observed and they both remembered

818
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:03,750
the quirkier finer points of being

819
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:06,010
respectively like five and seven years

820
00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:08,370
old and being brought together

821
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:10,870
repeatedly in childhood and adolescence

822
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:13,210
I would assume to be observed and

823
00:38:21,810 --> 00:38:18,730
perhaps even to set up or put pieces in

824
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:21,820
place that would later be played out the

825
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:25,930
other security person for the secretary

826
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:30,010
dan was incredibly freaked out by all

827
00:38:35,380 --> 00:38:31,250
this

828
00:38:37,359 --> 00:38:35,390
these were career for part of their

829
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:37,369
career State Department service

830
00:38:44,830 --> 00:38:40,390
personnel United Nations and NYPD

831
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:44,840
connection and trying to put oneself in

832
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:48,800
the place of a regular person in an

833
00:38:55,150 --> 00:38:51,530
extraordinary job going through this

834
00:38:59,470 --> 00:38:55,160
experience under these circumstances we

835
00:39:02,109 --> 00:38:59,480
feel led to Dan's having a profound

836
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:02,119
breakdown and being removed from the

837
00:39:08,859 --> 00:39:05,900
situation Richard and bud began to

838
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:08,869
correspond for quite some time before

839
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:11,390
they would meet with him

840
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:16,330
dan literally kidnapped Linda and

841
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,010
interrogated her because he was so

842
00:39:24,430 --> 00:39:21,680
freaked out and wanted answers that she

843
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:24,440
could not give him at this point let me

844
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:27,530
ask you if you have any particular

845
00:39:33,820 --> 00:39:30,640
questions that are coming up for you

846
00:39:36,250 --> 00:39:33,830
because again the tangents go off here

847
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:36,260
bearing in mind this was a six year long

848
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:40,010
investigation in a very detailed book as

849
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:43,130
well I mean we did I did go over the

850
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:45,530
Richard and Dan incidents you know the

851
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:48,170
the kidnapping you know the the

852
00:39:52,930 --> 00:39:51,170
breakdown the correspondence with bud

853
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:52,940
so I guess you know playing off of the

854
00:39:59,230 --> 00:39:55,280
Richard and Dan thing a little Peter now

855
00:40:02,530 --> 00:39:59,240
I guess I was unclear in my research of

856
00:40:04,690 --> 00:40:02,540
this case had bud actually met face to

857
00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:04,700
face with these two individuals I know

858
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:07,220
there were you know taped audio that

859
00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:09,830
they had sent to but at one point there

860
00:40:15,339 --> 00:40:13,220
were letters exchanged had he ever met

861
00:40:17,650 --> 00:40:15,349
Richard and Dan face to face would be my

862
00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:17,660
first question boy I'm trying to

863
00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:20,300
remember now I think he did meet with

864
00:40:24,940 --> 00:40:23,270
Richard ultimately okay but you know I'm

865
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:24,950
not positive I'd have to double-check

866
00:40:30,190 --> 00:40:27,950
that mmhmm yeah that that would be my

867
00:40:32,020 --> 00:40:30,200
only question in terms of the

868
00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:32,030
discrepancy with the Richard and Dan

869
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:35,089
affair which again it's like you said is

870
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:38,330
so it can go many different ways it

871
00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:40,910
plays out almost like like a thriller

872
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:44,540
soap opera which is a lot of the

873
00:40:51,099 --> 00:40:48,230
I guess a lot of the you know the more

874
00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:51,109
skeptical of those with this case think

875
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,630
that you know that this story seems too

876
00:40:57,730 --> 00:40:55,760
good to be true you know all of these

877
00:41:00,580 --> 00:40:57,740
things happened all throughout the

878
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:00,590
investigation but again like like you

879
00:41:05,710 --> 00:41:03,260
said we weren't there when any of this

880
00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:05,720
happened so we cannot say for sure what

881
00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:09,020
happened what did not so in terms of

882
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:11,840
that I guess my next question for you

883
00:41:19,330 --> 00:41:15,380
would be in terms of Xavier you said

884
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:19,340
that that but did meet with him and that

885
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:23,990
and in in the research I did I came up

886
00:41:28,990 --> 00:41:26,450
with Xavier neither confirming or

887
00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:29,000
denying any of this story now do you

888
00:41:33,609 --> 00:41:30,590
have any more insight on what exactly

889
00:41:36,340 --> 00:41:33,619
they talked about and what Xavier had to

890
00:41:39,970 --> 00:41:36,350
say in terms of all this oh yeah and

891
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:39,980
again this is one of the reasons why if

892
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:42,650
I'm on a show and somebody asked me to

893
00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:44,810
talk about a case either that I have an

894
00:41:50,290 --> 00:41:48,020
opinion on or was involved in I will do

895
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:50,300
it and we'll move on this is one of

896
00:41:55,870 --> 00:41:53,090
those rare instances where I would say

897
00:41:58,359 --> 00:41:55,880
to anybody listening who has questions

898
00:42:01,090 --> 00:41:58,369
or whose eyebrows are going up or

899
00:42:05,980 --> 00:42:01,100
rubbing their chin rhetorically read

900
00:42:08,890 --> 00:42:05,990
this book it's it's impossible for me to

901
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:08,900
do it any justice but I'm getting away

902
00:42:16,750 --> 00:42:11,210
from your questions and I think the best

903
00:42:21,150 --> 00:42:16,760
way to answer that is to take us to back

904
00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:21,160
to that time in buds words no first

905
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:24,440
declares wife was there and at times

906
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:27,650
within earshot bud was there with a

907
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:31,330
reporter and this was pre-arranged the

908
00:42:37,690 --> 00:42:34,970
material that he gave to the secretary

909
00:42:41,380 --> 00:42:37,700
was acknowledged essentially with a nod

910
00:42:44,609 --> 00:42:41,390
but let me jump right into the text here

911
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:44,619
of bud writing about this and beginning

912
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:47,510
when he got home that afternoon okay

913
00:42:52,690 --> 00:42:49,010
this is not something that he was

914
00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:52,700
reflecting on years later walking

915
00:42:58,099 --> 00:42:55,190
slightly behind my reporter friend so as

916
00:43:01,160 --> 00:42:58,109
not to be immediately seen by the third

917
00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:01,170
man I entered the airline's VIP lounge a

918
00:43:06,620 --> 00:43:03,630
quiet place with deep luxurious seating

919
00:43:08,749 --> 00:43:06,630
and discreet bar adjustment so people

920
00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:08,759
waited for their connecting flights and

921
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:10,380
I immediately spotted the third man

922
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:12,960
sitting with his wife reading my

923
00:43:18,829 --> 00:43:15,690
nervousness abated somewhat when I saw

924
00:43:20,690 --> 00:43:18,839
no sign of a security detail walking

925
00:43:22,370 --> 00:43:20,700
over the reporter introduced himself and

926
00:43:25,220 --> 00:43:22,380
then said this is my friend Budd Hopkins

927
00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:25,230
a colleague from New York I looked at

928
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:27,900
the third man who's passive eugenic

929
00:43:33,079 --> 00:43:29,910
expression registered no change

930
00:43:34,729 --> 00:43:33,089
he asked no questions about me who I was

931
00:43:36,979 --> 00:43:34,739
or why I was there and turned to the

932
00:43:39,049 --> 00:43:36,989
reporter who began talking to him about

933
00:43:41,870 --> 00:43:39,059
finding a more private place for the

934
00:43:44,779 --> 00:43:41,880
proposed interview nervously I handed

935
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:44,789
the third man my bulging package sir

936
00:43:49,489 --> 00:43:47,130
this is some material I think you'll

937
00:43:51,319 --> 00:43:49,499
find interesting I told him if the

938
00:43:53,630 --> 00:43:51,329
warnings about not taking packages from

939
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:53,640
strangers fresh in my memory and with

940
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:55,230
the awareness that the third man must

941
00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:57,180
have been thoroughly briefed by previous

942
00:44:01,279 --> 00:43:59,460
security details about the danger of

943
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,289
hidden explosives and letter bombs I

944
00:44:05,479 --> 00:44:03,119
watched to see what he did with my

945
00:44:07,279 --> 00:44:05,489
suspicious-looking parcel without a

946
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,289
break he continued speaking with a

947
00:44:12,380 --> 00:44:09,839
reporter while true Civ Lee unzipping a

948
00:44:14,299 --> 00:44:12,390
small carry-on suitcase he quickly took

949
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:14,309
the package inside and closed the case

950
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:16,650
not a word was directed me not a

951
00:44:22,009 --> 00:44:19,170
question about the package moving on

952
00:44:24,049 --> 00:44:22,019
here the frustrated reporter continued

953
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:24,059
to press the issue asking if he ever

954
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:26,099
remembered seeing anything strange late

955
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,440
at night in the area and again the third

956
00:44:32,989 --> 00:44:30,480
man paused and thought for a moment

957
00:44:35,420 --> 00:44:32,999
saying softly that maybe one of his

958
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:35,430
bodyguards might have seen something the

959
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:37,890
light years ago but didn't remember

960
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:40,319
anything now I'm sorry I can't help you

961
00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:43,140
he said you could try to contact some of

962
00:44:47,299 --> 00:44:45,420
my bodyguards let's see I believe one of

963
00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:47,309
them had a Russian name what was that

964
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:49,799
name throughout his response had been

965
00:44:55,940 --> 00:44:52,920
gentle extremely unruffled and very

966
00:44:58,370 --> 00:44:55,950
low-key what was missing was any sense

967
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,380
of surprise or anger when he saw that

968
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:00,480
his name had appeared in print in such a

969
00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:03,180
context he did not say how did my name

970
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:05,160
get mixed up with this well this is

971
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:06,690
ridiculous or who wrote this piece

972
00:45:11,220 --> 00:45:09,359
anyway the responses one would logically

973
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:11,230
expect a well-known person

974
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:14,770
protective of his reputation to make it

975
00:45:18,990 --> 00:45:15,910
continues on

976
00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:19,000
but Hopkins skills as a human observer

977
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,270
and deductive abilities for me are

978
00:45:27,329 --> 00:45:24,640
legend and Wow

979
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:27,339
I you know it's it's so many memories

980
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:30,220
come up the letters that we received

981
00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:33,970
were very poignant all of them hungry to

982
00:45:39,870 --> 00:45:36,040
find out what in the name of God they

983
00:45:42,450 --> 00:45:39,880
had seen none of them wanting attention

984
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:42,460
none of them wanting money none of them

985
00:45:50,250 --> 00:45:46,290
wanting anything but information also as

986
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:50,260
trained artists but was a very

987
00:45:56,579 --> 00:45:51,910
well-known painter in New York I was an

988
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:56,589
aspiring one we received drawings in at

989
00:46:01,230 --> 00:45:59,200
least half of these letters most of them

990
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:01,240
by untrained artists and there's

991
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:03,910
something very poignant I think you'll

992
00:46:09,089 --> 00:46:06,430
agree about witness related drawings

993
00:46:13,410 --> 00:46:09,099
from regular folks they have not studied

994
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:13,420
art but they have such intensity and

995
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:16,960
high intention and in this case there

996
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:19,690
was a certain lighting sequence and a

997
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:24,010
specific quirk to the shape and son of a

998
00:46:30,540 --> 00:46:26,940
gun if all of these different drawings

999
00:46:32,460 --> 00:46:30,550
didn't capture it to some degree again

1000
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:32,470
seemed from different angles different

1001
00:46:40,770 --> 00:46:36,609
positions different locations I I still

1002
00:46:43,290 --> 00:46:40,780
find this again to be the most memorable

1003
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:43,300
the UFO case I've ever worked and that

1004
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:46,720
includes Rendlesham in terms of the

1005
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:50,170
hyper specifics of the event and for me

1006
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:54,730
the ethics if you will the honesty the

1007
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:57,490
character of the central individual

1008
00:47:02,130 --> 00:46:58,480
involved

1009
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:02,140
Linda is not is not you know a mock

1010
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:06,609
abelian sophisticate she graduated from

1011
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:10,270
high school God married he had two sons

1012
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:14,290
not surprisingly the impact of these

1013
00:47:20,099 --> 00:47:16,450
events extended into her family

1014
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:20,109
if this brief conversation that we're

1015
00:47:25,049 --> 00:47:21,550
having although I'm doing most of the

1016
00:47:28,979 --> 00:47:25,059
conversing produces any result

1017
00:47:31,079 --> 00:47:28,989
for your readers I ask you again in a

1018
00:47:33,329 --> 00:47:31,089
way that I I normally would not if

1019
00:47:35,899 --> 00:47:33,339
you're interested in the subject if you

1020
00:47:39,929 --> 00:47:35,909
find this challenging or too challenging

1021
00:47:41,699 --> 00:47:39,939
want to know more about it or see the

1022
00:47:44,849 --> 00:47:41,709
work of a crack investigator a

1023
00:47:48,359 --> 00:47:44,859
world-class investigator sticking to an

1024
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,369
important story year after year and I

1025
00:47:53,579 --> 00:47:50,319
have to laugh sometimes because I think

1026
00:47:56,729 --> 00:47:53,589
if Hopkins had gone into law enforcement

1027
00:47:58,380 --> 00:47:56,739
instead of the arts what helped the

1028
00:48:02,009 --> 00:47:58,390
criminals of this world

1029
00:48:04,469 --> 00:48:02,019
had he been a New York City police

1030
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:04,479
detective he would have had a very long

1031
00:48:10,739 --> 00:48:08,079
list of the convictions and I'm sure

1032
00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:10,749
commendations anyway I point just being

1033
00:48:15,169 --> 00:48:13,150
you don't have to go out and spend money

1034
00:48:17,699 --> 00:48:15,179
on a collectible book you can find

1035
00:48:20,219 --> 00:48:17,709
paperback copies online for a couple

1036
00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:20,229
bucks the book is witnessed the true

1037
00:48:25,439 --> 00:48:22,150
story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO

1038
00:48:27,449 --> 00:48:25,449
abduction by Budd Hopkins perfect Peter

1039
00:48:29,579 --> 00:48:27,459
I can't thank you enough for giving us

1040
00:48:32,459 --> 00:48:29,589
that insider's perspective on all this

1041
00:48:34,769 --> 00:48:32,469
like you said it's easy for one to you

1042
00:48:39,269 --> 00:48:34,779
know in passing read an article about

1043
00:48:41,699 --> 00:48:39,279
this case you know my whole involvement

1044
00:48:44,609 --> 00:48:41,709
with covering this case was in a brief

1045
00:48:47,009 --> 00:48:44,619
article I'd written many many years ago

1046
00:48:49,799 --> 00:48:47,019
for open minds magazine you know as a

1047
00:48:53,209 --> 00:48:49,809
young naive researcher I can attest that

1048
00:48:55,919 --> 00:48:53,219
I did I did my research but without

1049
00:48:59,009 --> 00:48:55,929
really going deep without having read

1050
00:49:00,809 --> 00:48:59,019
the entire book I had no you know right

1051
00:49:02,729 --> 00:49:00,819
to cast judgment on the case on either

1052
00:49:04,799 --> 00:49:02,739
end of it so to have someone like

1053
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:04,809
herself who was directly involved with

1054
00:49:09,870 --> 00:49:07,390
the the prime investigator on the case

1055
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:09,880
and even the the person who was involved

1056
00:49:15,959 --> 00:49:13,119
is refreshing and invigorating and again

1057
00:49:19,289 --> 00:49:15,969
I'm so happy we were able to get your

1058
00:49:21,899 --> 00:49:19,299
side of this story and like you said for

1059
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:21,909
anyone who really wants to look into it

1060
00:49:29,519 --> 00:49:25,599
on either end of the skeptical or

1061
00:49:31,739 --> 00:49:29,529
balloon end of it read the book so again

1062
00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:31,749
I have to thank you for for covering

1063
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:32,829
this with us today

1064
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:35,169
glad to my friend my thanks to Peter

1065
00:49:38,170 --> 00:49:37,089
Robbins for taking the time to reflect

1066
00:49:40,420 --> 00:49:38,180
on this

1067
00:49:42,819 --> 00:49:40,430
it certainly opened my eyes on the

1068
00:49:45,069 --> 00:49:42,829
legitimacy of Linda's claims and the

1069
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:45,079
diligence but Hopkins showed in this

1070
00:49:50,049 --> 00:49:47,630
thorough investigation of the incredible

1071
00:49:52,359 --> 00:49:50,059
accounts and this is where I land on

1072
00:49:54,010 --> 00:49:52,369
this entire event like so many other

1073
00:49:56,020 --> 00:49:54,020
cases that we've covered here on summer

1074
00:49:58,180 --> 00:49:56,030
in the skies and so many others that

1075
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:58,190
continue to come across my digital desk

1076
00:50:04,049 --> 00:50:02,000
these are accounts stories irrefutable

1077
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:04,059
evidence or evidence in general is

1078
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:07,010
predominantly sparse and in the case of

1079
00:50:11,890 --> 00:50:09,049
Hopkins and his book based on this case

1080
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:11,900
it was an extraordinary story that

1081
00:50:18,039 --> 00:50:14,930
defied logical explanation and while it

1082
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:18,049
was fascinating and well told it was as

1083
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:21,650
so often these cases are open to extreme

1084
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:25,010
interpretation and scrutiny were asked

1085
00:50:30,339 --> 00:50:27,920
to accept the account as is based on the

1086
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:30,349
testimony of some of the participants as

1087
00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:33,890
a result of this I remain on the fence

1088
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:36,950
for all I know the Linda Napolitano case

1089
00:50:41,140 --> 00:50:38,450
might have gone down the way that

1090
00:50:43,210 --> 00:50:41,150
Hopkins said it did I wasn't in the room

1091
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:43,220
when Peter Robbins Redland his letters

1092
00:50:47,470 --> 00:50:45,650
and passed them on to Budd I wasn't in

1093
00:50:49,809 --> 00:50:47,480
the room when Hopkins but Linda under

1094
00:50:52,569 --> 00:50:49,819
hypnotic regression to retrieve possible

1095
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:52,579
memories of the event and I wasn't there

1096
00:50:57,010 --> 00:50:55,130
on the Brooklyn Bridge to watch as a

1097
00:51:00,819 --> 00:50:57,020
woman ascended into a craft and

1098
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:00,829
disappeared at a very long list of the

1099
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:03,440
convictions and I'm sure commendations

1100
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:05,839
anyway my point just being you don't

1101
00:51:10,690 --> 00:51:07,849
have to go out and spend money on a

1102
00:51:13,390 --> 00:51:10,700
collectible book you can find paperback

1103
00:51:15,339 --> 00:51:13,400
copies online for a couple bucks the

1104
00:51:18,130 --> 00:51:15,349
book is witnessed the true story of the

1105
00:51:20,799 --> 00:51:18,140
Brooklyn Bridge UFO abduction by Budd

1106
00:51:22,990 --> 00:51:20,809
Hopkins perfect Peter I can't thank you

1107
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:23,000
enough for giving us that insider's

1108
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:24,770
perspective on all this like you said

1109
00:51:30,789 --> 00:51:28,250
it's easy for one to you know in passing

1110
00:51:34,809 --> 00:51:30,799
read an article about this case you know

1111
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:34,819
my whole involvement with covering this

1112
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,510
case was in a brief article I'd written

1113
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:39,920
many many years ago for open minds

1114
00:51:45,549 --> 00:51:42,049
magazine you know as a young naive

1115
00:51:49,089 --> 00:51:45,559
researcher I can attest that I did I did

1116
00:51:51,450 --> 00:51:49,099
my research but without really going

1117
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:51,460
deep without having read the entire book

1118
00:51:56,670 --> 00:51:54,400
I had no you no right to cash judgment

1119
00:51:57,930 --> 00:51:56,680
on the case on either end of it so to

1120
00:52:00,660 --> 00:51:57,940
have someone like herself who was

1121
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:00,670
directly involved with the the prime

1122
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:02,890
investigator on the case and even the

1123
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:04,930
the person who was involved is

1124
00:52:10,529 --> 00:52:07,630
refreshing and invigorating and again

1125
00:52:13,769 --> 00:52:10,539
I'm so happy we were able to get your

1126
00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:13,779
side of this story and like you said for

1127
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:16,420
anyone who really wants to look into it

1128
00:52:24,029 --> 00:52:20,079
on either end of the skeptical or

1129
00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:24,039
between end of it read the book so again

1130
00:52:27,329 --> 00:52:26,260
I have to thank you for for covering

1131
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:27,339
this with us today

1132
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:29,650
glad to my friend my thanks to Peter

1133
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:31,450
Robbins for taking the time to reflect

1134
00:52:36,839 --> 00:52:34,510
on this case it certainly opened my eyes

1135
00:52:39,539 --> 00:52:36,849
on the legitimacy of Linda's claims and

1136
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:39,549
the diligence but Hopkins showed in this

1137
00:52:44,609 --> 00:52:42,130
thorough investigation of the incredible

1138
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:44,619
accounts and this is where I land on

1139
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,930
this entire event check out nighttime

1140
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:48,640
you may want to start with my coverage

1141
00:52:53,970 --> 00:52:51,369
of a specific event such as the shag

1142
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:53,980
harbour UFO incident which many call

1143
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,410
canada's roswell or the clarin ville

1144
00:53:01,799 --> 00:52:58,720
newfoundland UFO sighting my guest in

1145
00:53:04,109 --> 00:53:01,809
that episode is the retired RCMP officer

1146
00:53:07,289 --> 00:53:04,119
who witnessed and reported an anomalous

1147
00:53:09,299 --> 00:53:07,299
object or if you'd rather hear coverage

1148
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:09,309
of the phenomenon in general I have an

1149
00:53:15,029 --> 00:53:11,650
ongoing series of nighttime episodes

1150
00:53:17,309 --> 00:53:15,039
called UFOs above Canada on these

1151
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:17,319
episodes I attempt to clear the air on

1152
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:19,089
some of the often misunderstood

1153
00:53:24,539 --> 00:53:21,760
questions ones as simple as what is a

1154
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:24,549
UFO and why should we care about UFO

1155
00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:27,760
sightings if my show nighttime sounds

1156
00:53:33,660 --> 00:53:30,520
interesting you look me up and subscribe

1157
00:53:35,550 --> 00:53:33,670
wherever you listen to podcasts until

1158
00:53:37,870 --> 00:53:35,560
then let's get back to the show